Temperature Celcius

Temperature Celcius - Messages

#1 Posted: 2/27/2019 9:30:59 PM
Basile

Basile

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Hello,
Why this discrepancy?
Capture-smath-1.PNG

Thank you,
Basile
#2 Posted: 2/27/2019 9:47:25 PM
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

983 likes in 6866 posts.

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Wrote

Why this discrepancy?


Maybe user style ?

Basile.PNG

#3 Posted: 2/28/2019 5:37:32 AM
Martin Kraska

Martin Kraska

1222 likes in 2150 posts.

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°C can't be cancelled against K. Changes or differences of temperatures have to be tagged by Delta in the non-absolute temperature units.

See this post
Martin Kraska Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://en.smath.info/wiki/SMath%20with%20Plugins.ashx
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frapuano 2/28/2019 6:05:00 AM, Davide Carpi 2/28/2019 6:31:00 AM, Andrey Ivashov 2/28/2019 4:01:00 PM
#4 Posted: 2/28/2019 4:12:30 PM
Andrey Ivashov

Andrey Ivashov

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Wrote

°C can't be cancelled against K.


Wolfram alpha says K/°C=1.
Do we need the same behavior?
#5 Posted: 2/28/2019 4:50:01 PM
Arie

Arie

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Wrote


Wolfram alpha says K/°C=1.
Do we need the same behavior?



It doesn't show that here: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1kelvin%2F1degC

It converts °C to Kelvin before performing the division.

Edit: Here shows the result 1 K/K, but it specifies it's interpreting °C as delta degree C.

Personally, I prefer using the explicit Δ°C when performing these types of computations. I understand it's may be more confusing to some, but I also believe it's important to be explicit in syntax.
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Andrey Ivashov 2/28/2019 6:29:00 PM
#6 Posted: 2/28/2019 5:07:15 PM
Alvaro Diaz Falconi

Alvaro Diaz Falconi

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Wrote

Wrote

°C can't be cancelled against K.


Wolfram alpha says K/°C=1.
Do we need the same behavior?



Hi Andrey. Wolfram says what the author of the units package thinks that it's correct. Actually, here it's my own Mathematica units package: http://library.wolfram.com/infocenter/MathSource/5511/

I think that it's better check what says the SI norm:

https://en.smath.com/forum/yaf_postsm51217_Temperature-Units-Discrepancy.aspx#post51217

Best regards.
Alvaro.
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Andrey Ivashov 2/28/2019 6:29:00 PM
#7 Posted: 2/28/2019 6:30:26 PM
Andrey Ivashov

Andrey Ivashov

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Wrote

It doesn't show that here: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1kelvin%2F1degC

It converts °C to Kelvin before performing the division.



I've tried this one: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1*K%2FCelsius
#8 Posted: 2/28/2019 6:50:07 PM
Arie

Arie

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Wrote



I've tried this one: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1*K%2FCelsius



Interesting. I would think these both should compute to the same value since WA says they are assuming temperature in degrees Celsius and not delta temperature.

For what it's worth, I think the image on the right is incorrect IF assuming degrees Celsius as stated.

Untitled.png

The following explicitly states the assuming of degrees difference and computes to 1 appropriately.
Untitled2.png
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#9 Posted: 3/1/2019 4:38:18 AM
Martin Kraska

Martin Kraska

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Did you attach the wrong image? I don't see an appropriate computation to 1. Instead, I see 1*K/K, K is not cancelled, perhaps because each stands for different quantities. Yet I don't see why any tagging or assumption making should be required for offset-free temperature units. Is there any example where such distinguishing would be required?

Wrote


The following explicitly states the assuming of degrees difference and computes to 1 appropriately.
Untitled2.png



Martin Kraska Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://en.smath.info/wiki/SMath%20with%20Plugins.ashx
#10 Posted: 3/1/2019 5:55:04 AM
Davide Carpi

Davide Carpi

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:d





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#11 Posted: 3/1/2019 10:23:04 AM
Martin Kraska

Martin Kraska

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All the elaborate assumption making doesn't save WA from adding two absolute temperatures and taking the result as a difference.
I still vote in favour of the Delta-tagging of non-absolute units. Perhaps we should add a hint on that to the help strings of °C and °F (to use Deltas if changes or rates are expected).
As long as temperature results strictly default to K units, we are safe. If someone wants to write °C, he will see the hint and still can judge whether to tag or not to tag with Delta. This might reduce the frequency of this issue popping up in the forum.
Martin Kraska Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://en.smath.info/wiki/SMath%20with%20Plugins.ashx
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frapuano 3/1/2019 10:54:00 AM, Arie 3/1/2019 11:19:00 AM, bdrunagle 3/1/2019 1:25:00 PM
#12 Posted: 3/1/2019 3:12:46 PM
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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SI units system is largely not compatible with Engineering.

degC.PNG
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